Author Topic: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please  (Read 18718 times)

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 25 January 11 19:23 GMT (UK) »
Also there is the original transcribed entry of John's birth:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9I9IAAAAYAAJ&q=marie+wouton&dq=marie+wouton&hl=en&ei=xCI_TaCILM61hAePqYSLCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6wEwAA

The transcriber clearly couldn't read it. I think it probaly reads 'Nouton'.. exactly how a French speaker unfamiliar with English spelling would likely record the name 'Newton'!
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline mgr

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #37 on: Wednesday 26 January 11 11:21 GMT (UK) »
Richarde, Thank you for your help, it is much appreciated. It is kind of you to make such an effort on my behalf.

Just one more question if you don't mind. Burke's Peerage and Baronetage has the following, written after Joseph Pulley MP was knighted in 1893

The first of the name appears to have been Richard Polle, of Canterbury, who d. 1505. and desired to be buried in the churchyard of the now defunct Abbey of St. Augustine.

Have you come across this man at all?
Thanks again MGR
Marriott, Pulley- London, Seymour - London/ Oxon Boullen, Godefroy- Normandy/Guernsey/ Carlisle
Hastings, Todrig, Ayton- London,  Perry- Harrow,
Emms - Liverpool/ Kingston upon Thames,
Thurlby - Leasinghan/London
Reynolds, Pembroke, Jones/Llandegfan,
 Gibbs, Mason, Tunbridge Wells/Brighton .

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 26 January 11 12:41 GMT (UK) »
"The first of the name appears to have been Richard Polle, of Canterbury, who d. 1505. and desired to be buried in the churchyard of the now defunct Abbey of St. Augustine."

Hi Mgr, that is interesting as the name Richard doesn't appear French at all, and all the other records suggest strongly that Nicolas was the source of the Walloon family. The date he came late 1580's, matches the time Phillip II of Spain has the Inquisition in the Wallloon towns, so fits right there.

1505 is well before this, and before Luther, Calvin and the reformation in fact, so he wouldn't be a religious refugee. Economic immigrants did come from the Netherlands for many years before the refugees, but personally I think Burkes have just looked in the Canterbury registers for the first instance of the surname and assumed a link to the later Walloon family which seems very unlikely at that early date.  There were Pole families in England long before this back to the Norman times. I'm sure one branch was closely related to Henry VIII and he had them executed if I remember rightly. I think one was a cardinal in Rome very critical of Henry, and they had quite a good claim on the throne themselves...but that's digressing of course!
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline Akira01000

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 26 January 11 20:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richarde1979,

Wow you and mgr have been busy!! Still reading though and it's getting more and more interesing as I'm going through, thanks for the links i can read but can't write dutch yet another line goes back to holland aswell im researching.

I'm surprised about the Leiden archives they were behind at one stage it seems they've caught up I found the Jacques Polet but no Abraham in one if the digitized registers but having trouble reading it from the site from the scans.

You can also view the site in English also too.

Cheers

Akira





Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 26 January 11 20:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Akira

Have been doing a bit of further background reading today, as a lot of the Netherlandic history is also new to me, and it has in my own mind confirmed some of my thoughts towards your branch.  The Spanish Inquisition was in Tourcoing in the 1580's, when Nicolas Pollet and his branch fled to Canterbury. I believe your branch probably did flee at that time too but in their case further up into the Netherlands, to the Protestant city strongholds there, i.e Antwerp, Bruges, Brussels.

I believe since Anthoine Pollet of Rotterdam has your branch arriving in Leige 1633, that they almost certainly went first to Brussels in the 1580's.

Between 1581-1648, the Netherlands gradually polarised into what would become the Catholic Spanish Netherlands (modern Belgium) in the South, and the Calvinist United Provinces (Modern Netherlands) in the north. This division was more or less clear by 1610, but not confirmed until 1648.

Brussels in the 1630's, though in the Catholic South, still held hopes of being part of the Calvinist north, and when the Spanish governess Isabella died in 1633, they tried to take advantage of the temporary vacuum of power, by seizing power in Brussels with Dutch Army backing. Apparantly Charles I of England 'accidently on purpose' tipped off the Spanish, and the Spanish troops on the ground were alerted to the plot. With this advantage they managed to contain the rebels into a stand off  through most of the winter of 1633, before the King of Spains brother arrived the next year 1634 with 17,000 relief troops and put the rebellion down. Most of the Calvinists in Brussels would of course have faced  dire repercussions for all this, probable execution as rebels, so a great deal who could would have fled, mostly north into Holland.

The civilians also suffered attacks, from both sides, that winter, I found this contemporary English report:

The English Resident at Brussels writes that the Spanish and Dutch armies remain without the one wishing to attack the other at a disadvantage, foraging and scouring the country. Strategic bombardment and attacks on civilians in Brussels  reported. He adds that the approaching season will compel both of them to retire. London, the 7th October, 1633.

I think therefore your Pollets likely were amongst those Calvinists who fled Brussels in 1633 because of this.

I think it's also significant they later fled again from Leiden to England around 1668 (or some did at least), as this is exactly the same time Tourcoing was conquered by Louis XIV. Perhaps they orginally held hopes that at some point they could return to Tourcoing, but after 80 years in refuge, moving to Brussels, then again to Leiden, and now seeing their home town completely taken over by a foreign and hostile Catholic power, they had finally given up all hope of returning, and decided instead to join their relatives in Canterbury and London, concentrate on building a new life there. They do seem to have gone to Canterbury first before moving on a couple of years later to London.

Anyway  yes certainly an interesting family, enough twists, turns and drama there to fill a book!

Regards

Richard
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline Akira01000

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday 26 January 11 22:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi richarde1979,

Thank you very much for you help but another question does it go the following way with the family lineage.

Anthonie Polet from Belgium to Rotterdam
Pierre Polet from Rotterdam to Leiden
Jacques Polet from Leiden to Canterbury

Is this correct from reading your findings, and the leiden archives.

Cheers

Akira


Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday 26 January 11 22:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi Akira

Anthonie Pollet is a modern decendant of the family, born in Rotterdam in 1928. It is he who traced the family back to Leiden 1633, and has lodged his works with the archives there.

He has the head of that family at that times as a Jacques. You would need to get hold of his works for exact details. He has him born in Tourcoing, so it might be possible to guess at a birth date for him before 1585ish, if they did leave for Brussels then (again at this stage just a theory)

provisionally I'd guess at something like this (but just a very rough guess!)

Jacques Pollet born circa 1580/90 Tourcoing.
|
Pierre Pollet born circa 1615 Tourcoing or Brussels?
|
Jacques Pollet born circa 1645 Leiden

Jacques then coming to England, perhaps going to his relatives in Canterbury on mgr's branch, around 1668, meeting his wife Isabella Smith there, before marrying her in London 1671,  remarrying there as a widower to Margeueritte Willet 1683.


Tourcoing and Brussels were both in this time period part of the Spanish Netherlands, and Leiden part of the The United Provinces (The Dutch Republic). The modern state of Belgium did not exist as such until the 1830's.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday 26 January 11 22:59 GMT (UK) »
Interesting this, found this reference to a very early trial against Protestants:

"1526  the trial of five Lutheran 'Heretics', including Paul Pollet, Jean Hadet and Jean Caulier, interrogated by John Ferlin, prior of the Dominican Convent of Lille."

Luther nailed his Ninety-Five Theses up on 31 October 1517, sparking the Reformation, so only about 8-9 years before that. Tourcoing was part of the Canton of Lille, so looks to me as if the Pollet family may have been among the very earliest converts to the 'reformed' religion.

Along with the Protestants of neighbouring Mouscron, and Tournoi, the Protestants of Tourcoing, were apparantly part of a sect known as the 'Hurlus' who destroyed Catholic churches and tried to capture Lille several times between 1578-82. After their defeat the InquisItion was bought in to totally wipe out Protestantism from those towns. Apparantly with success, they are still almost exclusively Catholic to this day. So this would be why they fled then no doubt.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline Akira01000

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Re: Jacques Polet born France / died England lookup please
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday 26 January 11 23:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richarde1979,

Thanks for your reply, Where did you find that it's incredible I know the family originally came from France but when now indicates closer to wherethe family came from Lille is that in the north of France?

It's certainly linking up your theories to what the family stories passed down have mentioned thus far.

Cheers

Akira