Author Topic: Which William Sutton  (Read 1375 times)

Offline maddys52

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 11 November 21 08:55 GMT (UK) »


I am now thinking William the convict on the Barwell is the storekeeper who went back to England.

I don't think so as the William SUTTON who arrived on the Barwell is definitely included on the 1822 muster, whilst the other went back to England in 1818. (as per reply #8)

Offline maddys52

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 11 November 21 09:28 GMT (UK) »


In this reference there is reference to Sarah and Hannah. Could Hannah have been Harriet?
https://www.australianhistoryresearch.info/list-of-free-settlers-from-england-who-been-left-by-different-ships-without-any-order-from-government-as-the-1802-muster/



"Hannah" could well be "Ann".

I was wondering how you  can be certain that Sarah was baptised at Stepney in 1789? There are a few possible baptisms in this time period in the London area (and possibly more outside London!)

What do you think William's occupation is on the baptism you have for Sarah at Stepney? (the word before "White Row")

Offline maddys52

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 11 November 21 09:45 GMT (UK) »
There is also a William George SUTTON baptised at Christ Church Spitalfields to parents William and Ann of White Row on 16 Oct 1791.


Offline Jomot

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 11 November 21 13:04 GMT (UK) »
It doesn't add to anything, but Sarah is also in the 1841 census at Parramatta as Sarah Skawler. 
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. North Yorkshire.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 11 November 21 13:30 GMT (UK) »
Quote
There was a Sarah Murphy who died in 1866 aged 75 years. This particular Sarah would have been born in 1790 or 1791. We have Sarah being born in 1789 so the numbers closely align. Death records can be unreliable so perhaps this was Sarah Sutton etc. REF: 1484/1866

There is a death notice for this Sarah - relict of the late John Morris Murphy
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. North Yorkshire.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline majm

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 11 November 21 22:17 GMT (UK) »
Quote
There was a Sarah Murphy who died in 1866 aged 75 years. This particular Sarah would have been born in 1790 or 1791. We have Sarah being born in 1789 so the numbers closely align. Death records can be unreliable so perhaps this was Sarah Sutton etc. REF: 1484/1866

There is a death notice for this Sarah - relict of the late John Morris Murphy

Followup from Jomot's sighting ...  :D

From various digitised newspapers readily available online via Trove, the wonderful website of the National Library of Australia:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/166662675 Sydney Mail 8 December 1866
DEATHS
Murphy – December 6th, at her residence, 15 Cole’s buildings, Miller’s Point, Sarah, relict of the late John Morris Murphy, Sergeant HM 28TH Infantry, aged 75 years.


JM
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Offline NevilleTB

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 11 November 21 23:11 GMT (UK) »
Seems the fact that William from the Barwell was around in the 1822 muster rules out the shopkeeper who returned to England in 1818.

There are at least three William Suttons.
  • The convict who came out on the Neptune, Scarborough and Surprize, December 1789
  • The convict who came out on the Barwell in 1795
  • The shopkeeper who returned to England in 1819

The other key piece of information is:
Quote
I haven't found the evidence of the land grant, however this blog suggests that indeed the convict William SUTTON who arrived on the Barwell was given 148 acres of land in 1804.
http://www.lunatribe.com/Genealogy/7012.htm

This would tie in with this advertisement in Nov 1818 which says William SUTTON ("late of Sydney") left his land to his daughter Sarah WILKES.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2178319

So that could be seen as fairly strong confirmation that  Sarah had a father called William who had land in the colony. If the land went to his daughter, why? He may have died but I cannot find a record. He may have left the colony. He may have been too old to unable to manage the land. Could this point to the first William who arrived in 1789? How accurate are immigration records of the time for convicts and free settlers?

Regarding the question of his birth as William Talbot Sutton in 1762, I found that reference on a number of family trees but have my doubts for two reasons. First the name Talbot does not appear again in any records I have found. Second, there is nothing to link the birth to any further events.

This post has turned up a lot of interesting facts, but I still cannot find a thread that ties them together.


Offline majm

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 11 November 21 23:30 GMT (UK) »
.....

In 1801 Ann, Sarah and Harriet arrived on the Porpoise. Most family trees have William returning to Australia although he is not mentioned as being on the Porpoise. I suppose he could have returned on another boat but it seems unlikely. I can find no record of his emigration. ......

Are you sure that the SUTTON family were on the Porpoise departing (finally) England November 1800, arriving Sydney 1801.    It is entirely possible that the family on the Porpoise were the SUTTOR family (not the SUTTON family), as in George SUTTOR who became the Superintendent of the Lunatic Asylum at Castle Hill, and who received a land grant at Baulkham Hills, and who accompanied Bligh back to England for Bligh's Court Martial, and then who returned to NSW in 1812 bv the Mary.   

ADD https://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/suttor-george-1270

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline majm

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Re: Which William Sutton
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 11 November 21 23:57 GMT (UK) »
..... How accurate are immigration records of the time for convicts and free settlers?..

Shipping records were not required to be archived.  The focus was on ensuring that the penal administration headquartered in Sydney established and maintained adequate records and the statistics from those records were to be regularly transmitted back to the English administrative offices so that England could budget for the expenses incurred in the penal settlements.   Here is a live link :   https://www.nla.gov.au/research-guides/australian-shipping-and-passenger-records/new-south-wales

Passenger lists with names and identifying details of their ancestors were not ever a focus in the penal era (to say 1826ish), nor in the colonial era and well as for the gold rushes era ... don't hold your breath.   If the person came free, and was NOT a cabin passenger, then until at least 1828, it is very unlikely that there will be any official record at all - 1828 so the name of the ship of arrival will likely be noted next to the name of the then living person included in the NSW census of late 1828.  Here is a live link to NSW Archives re immigration, shipping ...  :)   https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/immigration-shipping-guide   Here is a thread re the fantastic Log of Logs  :) https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812968.0 

I note that the digitised Convict Indents for the years 1788 to 1801 are freely available at the NSW State Archives website. https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/convict-indents-digitised-index 

Here is a thread re NSW Archives and their fantastic Webinars :  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=836103.0

Here is some further live links to resources
https://www.nla.gov.au/research-guides/family-history/family-history-societies
Digitised Australian Joint Copy Project : https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=829521.0

JM

 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.