Martin - Carroll Families in Surrey and Woolwich, Kent UK

[JulieAE]

Gulielmus is Latin for William, so maybe the ancestors of this William Martin come from Greece?

[AlanBoyd]

At this time RC baptism records used Latinised versions of English names, so any William would be recorded like this.

[jonwarrn]

Hi
I think it's just that the Catholic registers tend to use the Latin form of names. The whole entry seems to be written in Latin.
It's a pity there is only one godparent, Ann(a) Carroll, but at least it looks like she must be a relative. I would think that Elizabeth probably had a Catholic background. If that is her remarriage to Thomas Young, then her father was James Carroll, a soldier. Lots of soldiers in the British Army were Irish, and Carroll is an Irish kind of name.

From that later baptism record I mentioned, Thomas Young and Elizabeth may have a had a son of the same name in 1840. Though can't be certain, because the birth registration just says male. If it's the same Elizabeth, then presumably the first William died, but I haven't been able to pin down a burial. In my own families in the area there are some missing burials though, possibly due to lost records (small local non parish church burial grounds?)

[JulieAE]

Thank you for sharing that information. I am not sure if it is the same Elizabeth Carroll as the only birth I could find for Elizabeth Carroll was

Elizabeth baptised 26 Dec 1797 of William and Charlotte. I found a marriage for William Carroll and Charlotte Sendall 1791 which has witnesses Ann Carroll and Jno Chris'pher Christman.

[jonwarrn]

Hi
But if Elizabeth was born when her father was serving as a soldier then she might have been born anywhere in the British Empire.
If born later, and they were Catholic, then it would be harder to find a baptism. She might have been born in Ireland. We just don't know.
We know John Martin's father was another John (John Martin senior, the marriage witness), so James Martin could have been named after Elizabeth's father. This makes sense also for the February 1829 baptism, being the first likely child after the marriage in 1827.

[JulieAE]

Hi Jon,

So I may have Elizabeth with the wrong parents. Ok I do think the Merchant Seaman's ticket you found for James is correct, I think he is my great-great grandfather James Martin born 2nd Feb 1832 and he changed the year of birth to 1830 so he was 18 when he registered. So if that is the case that gives James a sister Maria born in 1831 and do you think William is his brother? and I need to search for new parents for Elizabeth. Your help is truly appreciated.

[jonwarrn]

Hi
I think the Catholic baptism is probably connected.
If the Elizabeth Martin, widow, marriage to Thomas Young in 1839 is right, then you need to look for a death/burial of John Martin between 1835ish and 1839, presumably in the Southwark area.

[JulieAE]

Thank you I will start searching

[Neale1961]

26 Oct 1837.
There is a burial at St George the Martyr, Southwark for a John Martin, age 43.
Abode Staple Street.
There is a matching death registration for this man.