William CARR

[Dundee]

Well, they certainly didn't lead boring lives!!

Now I wonder if William CARR was a figment of someone's imagination (though Peter has evidence that he existed), a real person who Margaret had a relationship with before moving south, or are we looking for another sister?  I still can't find an 1871 census match for Clara GATES who married Alfred JENKIN in 1866 in London.

Debra 

[SherlockBones]

Debra

I am still waiting on further feedback on your comment: -
"Good grief, it is looking as though Edward was related to Ann GATES husband Henry HART! A bit more detective work needed"

William Carr may have existed  but there is nothing to tie him in with Margaret Keeling nee Gates. Margaret's relationship broke down sometime between 1865 -1870 when we find Joseph is already living with a Jane 'Keeling" At best it may have been a casual relationship.
Seeing that both Joseph aand Margaret arrived in Australia there is no veracity to the family history that they married on board on the way out. Unless it was another sister, but the only ones old enough would have been Clara who appears to have married in Bethal Green
in 1866 to Alfred Jenkins

Jon

[Dundee]

Debra

I am still waiting on further feedback on your comment: -
"Good grief, it is looking as though Edward was related to Ann GATES husband Henry HART! A bit more detective work needed"

Jon

I was getting a bit over excited    The names Nathan, Phillips, Hyam and Hart are fairly prolific Jewish names and there are many people with combinations of them.

Debra 

[SherlockBones]

The Argus Friday 10 March 1882 reported: -

"William Greenough, charged with bigamy. Previous to this it is alleged that he had been married to another woman named Gades [sic] or Carr, from whom he separated but obtained no legal divorce"

There is that Carr name raising it's head again. I'm strating to think that Joseph and Margaret Keeling came out under an assumed name IE Mr. & Mrs. Wm. Carr to escape authorities or possible prosecution?

Jon

[pwh]

I came across an article in the Rockhampton Bulletin and Central Quuensland
Advertiser of 29/7/1865 that during the voyage of the Royal Dane at least four
adults died. Perhaps one of them was Ann Norahs sisters first husband.Food for
thought is it not?
                                     Regards Peter                                   

[SherlockBones]

I came across an article in the Rockhampton Bulletin and Central Quuensland
Advertiser of 29/7/1865 that during the voyage of the Royal Dane at least four
adults died. Perhaps one of them was Ann Norahs sisters first husband.Food for
thought is it not?
                                     Regards Peter                                   

Peter
Margaret Gates's first husband was Joseph Keeling. They married Feb 1865 and are in Queensland by Jul 1865.
Both Joseph and Margaret Keeling [nee Gates] arrived in Australia and Joseph plied his trade as a butcher. Margaret went her separate way for whatever reason, knowing that Joseph was was still married to Jane Reeves in the UK.
She finds her way to Victoria where she marries William Greenough and then later Edward Nathan Phillips in NSW. She later dies in VIC.
If you read thru all the newspaper items that I sent you, you will see that just after Joseph and Margaret married in the UK, his first wife Jane came knocking at the door to let Margaret know that Joseph was already married. Margaret appears to leave Joseph for a while but they then get back together again and come out to Australia.
Perhaps as a vengeful first wife Jane, notified the authorities who were hot on his trail. He convinces Margaret to get back together with him and to start a new life in the colonies and at the same time also assumes a false name to enable himself and Margaret to get out of the country.
Again if you read the newspaper items you will see that Margaret declares at one stage that she left Joseph Keeling in QLD. 

Jon

[majm]

Hi Peter,

May I please butt in ...

Firstly, Well Done to all those that have been helping you on this thread.  Thank you Peter  for starting this thread. 

I have re-read all the posts on this thread....

When there's any deaths on the voyages, these are usually noted in the ship's log, along with the name of the deceased, and written up in that log on the day the burial at sea occured...   However, I can see from reading this thread that it is not possible that any one of those four was Ann Norah's sister's first husband, and that Jon has explained this in detail and clearly in the reply to your latest query (reply #32).

But what an interesting story has come to light.  I think there's a book waiting for you to pen.   

Cheers,  JM.


 

[majm]

Hi Everyone,

Peter has kindly posted some info on his current thread on the Bedfordshire board, and I think it may be of interest on this thread as well.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,579751.10.html  Reply # 18

The link to the Illustrated Australian News of 20 Feb 1884 is http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/63185846 and it includes:
 
details of Jane Reeve’s marriage to Joseph Keeling in 1859 at Leighton Buzzard, the birth of their son, Joseph Keeling a few months late, and then Joseph Keeling’s marriage to Margaret Gates in 1865, and that couple sailed to Queensland, then their separation. 

  Margaret next married William Greenough in Fitzroy, Victoria in 1874, and the witnesses to that marriage are named in the article.   
  Then six years later, William Greenough marries an elderly lady, Letitia Armstrong on 7 Sept 1880 at Albury, NSW.   

  In 1882, a ‘loose woman’ named Ann Cummins has William Greenough arrested for bigamy.  The Mayor, presiding at the bench determined that Greenough was to be discharged, and thus Greenough was “carried off in triumph by his faithful Letitia, whilst the irate Margaret, who had certainly increased in bulk since she was first wooed by the deceptive Keeling, went away dubious as to whether she was Mrs Greenough, Mrs Keeling or still plain Margaret Zebina Gates”.

Cheers,  JM

[pwh]

Jm
     There  question of who William Carr was is still mystery. To my knowledge no trace him
has ever been found here or in England. But some one calling  himself William Carr was in Rockhampton in 1865. He is mentioned by that name in Ann Norah Harts(Gates) obitutary
printed in the Mornring Bulletin(Rockhampton) on 7/11/1865. On 12/11/1865 an article
headed  Royal Dane List, the last survior he is mmentioned again . The writer was a man
named Pattison who wrote under the name"Battler". I researched him and found that
his father had been a butcher in Rockhampton in 1863, before Carr arrived. So it would be
safe to assume that :Battlers father must have known him ipersonally. The website is
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article54974681. Another mystery to sole if i can.

                                                                                         Regards
                                                                                                     Peter